General James L. Jones, the Supreme Allied Commander-Europe (SACEUR) and the Commander of the United States European Command (COMUSEUCOM), spoke with Yasemin Çongar on CNN Turk.
October 24, 2006 Washington, D.C.
ÇONGAR: General, thank you very much for talking to CNN Turk this morning. I would like to begin by asking you about the number of security forces in Afghanistan. The per capita ratio of security forces--when you add the ANA (Afghan National Army), ANP (Afghan National Police), NATO, U.S. and irregular forces--still seems to be too low for a successful counter-insurgency operation. How important is it now to persuade the individual NATO countries to make more contributions and to resource this operation more enthusiastically?
JONES: Well I don’t know if there is a textbook solution to what the right ratio of the per capita ratio is for the successful fight against an insurgency. But I do believe that solution set has to be more oriented towards focused reconstruction this is a many faceted problem, a multi-faceted problem. For me the solution set has to be more oriented towards focused reconstruction and development. Because you have in Afghanistan a good base there in the public popular opinion that says that have demonstrated through two overwhelmingly two elections that they are ready for a different time, they want to stop fighting. And so the question is how soon can we bring the reconstruction? How soon can we allow and help the Karzai government expand its influence and it means that in addition to fighting what is left of the Taliban and the so called classic insurgents, to make a difference in such areas as judicial reforms, the police capabilities, and without question, the influence of narcotics on Afghan society and on Afghan economy and on the insurgency. So, on the one hand it’s fairly easy to see the problem. The challenge is how do you bring all the elements that are working together from the military all the way up to the United Nations that is leading the coordination of the aid and the reconstruction. And if you can do that and if you can focus it the right way at the right place, the right time at the right amount, I think you can make a lot of head way. So, another way of summarizing this question is I don’t think it’s just a military problem. But I do think the military plays a crucial role in establishing the conditions by which reconstruction can take place.
ÇONGAR: Also, in a briefing today in Washington, you mentioned the importance of removing the caveats, if you will, removing the restrictions on the NATO forces that individual NATO countries have imposed. And you said letters were sent to the chiefs of defense of the NATO countries who are to meet in Brussels shortly. Specifically, what caveat would you like to see Turkey remove so that Turkey can contribute more? Also keeping in mind that Turkey is, I think, one of the NATO countries with the lowest level of contribution when you look at the population of the country and the population of the armed forces…
JONES: Right…Well here again the meeting that is coming up in Brussels is the Chiefs of Defense, it’s the military meeting. Later on this year we will have a Heads of State meeting at the region summit. But this meeting next week is important because we have signaled to the military chiefs that we would like them to come to the table with some commitment to remove the national restrictions that are most important to the ability of the commander to command his forces and those restrictions usually have things to do with territorial restrictions for example, limitation by a country that forces cannot be moved out of a certain zone of action for example. Those kinds of caveats cause the commander of ISAF to have to work double hard. Actually it means that we have to generate more forces to compensate that lack of maneuverability. Turkey is a very important country to the future of Afghanistan. Turkish business interests are predominant in Turkey. I know for example the American Embassy was built by a Turkish firm in Kabul and they did a very nice job. We have had Turkish commanders in charge of ISAF. Turkey is a great power and has enormous capacity to make a difference in Afghanistan. And I would very much encourage my friends in Turkey and other countries that have national restrictions to seriously consider what that does and to increase the level of support not just militarily but also in terms of the reconstruction peace and joining the discussions and answering the questions, “What do we do about narcotics? Do we do about judicial reform? What do we do about training the police? What do we do about battling the corruption in the country? This not just a problem for Turkey, it’s a problem for all of us and a significant regional power like Turkey can make an enormous contribution to the out come of Afghanistan.
ÇONGAR: Since we have a predominantly Turkish audience today, I would like to ask you more specifically: Would you like to see Turkey to remove the caveat of Turkish forces not being able to operate outside Kabul?
JONES: I would.
ÇONGAR: Okay, thank you. One quick question on Pakistan, Sir: After the recent agreement between, you know, the Pakistanis and the Waziris, there seems to be an increase in the attacks across the border. How does NATO begin to come to grips with Taliban, with a Taliban sanctuary in Pakistan?
JONES: Well, we have an emerging but very hopeful relationship emerging with Pakistan, specifically the military. I visited Islamabad recently. We anticipate the visit of Pakistani Military leaders to Brussels in the not too distant future. We have had very hopeful discussions. They explained in detail the principles behind what they hope to achieve in their negotiations with the tribal regions and the tribal leaders. We are watching very carefully what is happening on the Afghan side of the boarder and we will have more and more discussions as evidence continues to present itself one way or the other. I think what happens in Afghanistan is not just an isolated problem, it is a regional problem and countries around Afghanistan all have high interest in what happens there. Probably chief among them is Pakistan. So, we hope that this relationship is going to develop. It is off to a good start. Pakistani authorities have said that they want to help solve the problem along the boarders and we are looking forward to working with them just to do that.
ÇONGAR: Well, one last question if I may. You put emphasis on reconstruction, on winning the hearts and minds of people. I was in Afghanistan and I interviewed many people who were very much supportive of the NATO effort and the change in the country. But they are also very sceptical of the Karzai government; they are saying they are not seeing results. How is it possible to win in Afghanistan if there are not enough resources—-if there is not enough money for reconstruction, if the corruption is not being fought against as forcefully as it can be? In other words, do you think NATO, which–-you say-–can win militarily, can also win this politically with the amount of resources in play?
JONES: NATO’s mission does not include the totality. NATO is not responsible for everything in Afghanistan NATO has a mandate for security and stability and some reconstruction through the prudential reconstruction teams, essentially setting the conditions so that those massive international relief organizations can come in and do the job. Your questions are absolutely correct that the longer we fail to address the issues that you just raised and I raised in previous meetings, the longer we will be there and the longer we are there, the more hope that we give to the opposition and then if you take it to its logical extreme, the more it becomes a military problem. I prefer to be on the optimistic side and say” look there is an awful lot of aid going in there. Let’s make sure it is coordinated, let’s make sure the money is being well spent. Let’s make sure we are tackling the things we have to tackle. The corruption, the crime, the judicial reform, the police, more police in the villages and above all some progress on narcotics, which is not only fueling the insurgency but paying for it, but also affecting all aspects of Afghan life in a negative way. If we can do that then I think we can make more rapid progress in Afghanistan. And if we don’t I think we will just be there a lot longer.
ÇONGAR: Okay and on that note, thank you very much General. Thank you for your time.
JONES: Thank you, my pleasure.
